There's something about drum brakes in brand new cars

"Clemsie McKenzie" (thestirringcolumn)
06/20/2016 at 10:02 • Filed to: HERE COME THE DRUMS

I don’t know exactly what, but there is. Also I like the optimism in buying what I guess are optionnal alloys to show off your brand new drum brakes, made irrelevant 40 years ago! Economy cars are fun.

DISCUSSION (34)

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:05

Cheap cars have drum brakes because drum brakes are essentially a free parking brake. 4 wheel disc cars need a separate parking brake.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:06

Cooling fins, because you need those on the monster that is the Twingo 3.

Also, drum brakes are perfectly good, since the front-rear brake bias is around 75-25%, meaning an investment in larger/double/cooled rotors at the front give a higher braking improvement compared to switching to rotors at the rear. Some economy cars like the Polo(and its derivatives), run very small disks at the rear.

Flavien Vidal > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:12

Rear drum brakes on 2016 models?? Really, does that still exist?? My 1985 RX7 has rear disc brakes from stock. That was 31 years ago lol...

Heck my 1967 Fiat Dino (soon not to be mine anymore) has rear discs lol and that was 49 years ago!!! :)

nerd_racing > Flavien Vidal
06/20/2016 at 10:14

my 85 RX7 has the drums...

nerd_racing > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:15

In a lot of cases drums are actually lighter than disk brakes, and unless it’s a performance car or heavy towing, you really don’t use the back brakes all that much. Drums make sense in that situation to save cost.

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal
06/20/2016 at 10:16

Ford Focus has them on base models. Source: my father has a 2016 1.5 diesel.

I’m sure there are several more examples.

Flavien Vidal > nerd_racing
06/20/2016 at 10:17

JDM bro :)

It’s a 1985 SA22C Turbo RX7. Came stock with rear disc brakes, but in Japan only (where I live). Less than 2000 produced in 1984 and 1985 only.

Kinja'd!!!

Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
06/20/2016 at 10:17

Not all cars with rear disc brakes have a seperate parking brake.
I have 3 cars with rear disc brakes, none of them has a parking brake drum. You just need specific calipers.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:18

Hahahahahaha

Besides the fact that they aren’t as easy to maintain.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Cé hé sin
06/20/2016 at 10:18

Does it? can’t remember ever seeing one with drums. Because my dad had a 2012 1.6 diesel, which had rotors, with a parking drum in the center of it. Maybe they do drums on the hatchback, and not on the wagon?

Milky > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:20

IIRC the base Corolla has rear drums and a 4spd transmission.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:22

I seriously don’t understand how in 2016, drums are still cheaper than discs. I figured with discs being standard on nearly everything, economy of scale would make them so much cheaper than keeping a line open for the drums. Drums are also a bitch, so I don’t get how they’re saving time and money on putting them on in the factory vs discs.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams
06/20/2016 at 10:23

Both my nearly 30-year-apart MR2 and BRZ have their parking brakes integrated into the discs.

Clemsie McKenzie > Flavien Vidal
06/20/2016 at 10:23

Yep, but I’ve only seen it on Renaults, and also I think on a Cactus. But the Cactus is forgiven for being otherwise awesome.

Clemsie McKenzie > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer
06/20/2016 at 10:24

All very fair points. But don’t forget that the Twingo 3 is rear-engined!

spanfucker retire bitch > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:25

Something awful is surely what you mean. I just laugh and hang my head everytime I see a new car with drum brakes.

The Toyota Taco is probably the funniest yet as it’s not even a cheap economy car.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > nerd_racing
06/20/2016 at 10:26

Actually, the weight thing makes me wonder if it’s about saving unsprung and rotating mass. Most car makers are desperate for any fraction of an mpg they can get with CAFE standards today.

Clemsie McKenzie > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/20/2016 at 10:27

Tell me about it. Last year I had to service the rear brakes on my 2000 Renault Clio, because they were sticky and braked very slightlt unequaly, making me fail inspection. Single most expensive I’ve ever had to do on the car, at €600. Never had anything to do to the front discs, except pads of course.

nerd_racing > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
06/20/2016 at 10:27

I converted my old Barracuda from drums to disks and they were a hell of a lot heavier. Similar situation with the Mazda BG platform cars.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:42

Yes, but you still want better braking in the front though, since having more brake bias to the rear is similar to slowing down a boat by throwing out the anchors, it works but isn’t that effective. IIRC, front drum to disk conversions are way more common in old rear engined cars like Beetles.

Anyhow, this is just my vision on why it is safe, though disks will always give a slightly better performance. Sadly car manufacturers like to focus on both cost and safety, which will always cause certain trade-offs to be made, see the Pinto-case for instance(I don’t want to keep your from finishing your thesis, but it is quite an interesting Technical/Ethical problem).

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:42

Wow, I didn’t know that was still going on.... I changed my 1971 Datsun drums to 1986 Maxima rotors in the rear with a kit. Seems pretty silly given how shit drums are to maintain.

Hoccy > Flavien Vidal
06/20/2016 at 10:48

My 1970 Volvo 142 has stock rear discs, as do all 140's since 1966.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 10:58

Bleh, I’ve been avoiding opening the ones on the ‘68 Mercury Montego.

Clemsie McKenzie > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer
06/20/2016 at 11:03

Oh yeah, no doubt it’s safe.

Also, I’m on Oppo, so if I’m distracted it’s my own fault! But the thesis deadline has been postponed until September. Which is the single most relieving thing that’s ever happened to me, if I’m honest!

brianbrannon > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 11:10

Rear drums are lighter, cheaper, and last longer than discs.

Berang > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 11:13

At least they’re finned.

Clemsie McKenzie > brianbrannon
06/20/2016 at 11:16

They can also be much more annoying to service. It’s also a bit surprising that discs still aren’t considered cheap enough to be standard on all models of a mainstream manufacturer such as Renault!

Clemsie McKenzie > Berang
06/20/2016 at 11:17

And in big alloys to cool down the massive heat they must be giving off during the numerous trackdays they’ll be featured in!

505 - morphine not found > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 11:54

I have driven this car, with the more powerful turbo engine and even that comes with rear drums - and this fact is very confusing. Considering that the common knowledge says drums have less stopping power, but are more durable than disks and their pads, I’m not against seeing them on the rear axle of small, slow, FF economy cars, as was the norm up until 10 years ago. However, this is a Twingo, a very cleverly packaged RR layout city runabout. We are told, that 911s have insane rear brake power because of the ass-engine layout, so why does the Twingo not have disk brakes there, to harness the same physics?

I have nothing.

Chasaboo > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 11:59

Drums are fine. My Fit has ‘em and no complaints.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 12:24

In North America, aren’t there still a few cars with drum brakes?

Yaris, Prius C? I know the Honda Fit had them on base models until 2015.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Clemsie McKenzie
06/20/2016 at 12:25

I’ll let you guess which vehicle this came from. It is a 2016 from a major manufacturer.

Kinja'd!!!

Chinny Raccoon > Flavien Vidal
06/20/2016 at 13:34

The new Aygo/C1/108 has them. Work fine, and may be a holdover from the previous model.

Echo51 > Clemsie McKenzie
06/29/2016 at 12:25

Calipers imho are nothing but trouble for the rear. The discs can built alot of rust and won’t really brake clean for a normal driven car, the calipers have a easiere time of seizing, leaking or whatever else happends. Handbrake with rear calipers either require a inner drum(superior), cause the little lever arm out of the caliper is another leak/weak spot, and an extra caliper for handbrake is just overkill.
Rear drums are a bit more fiddly yes, but mine so far lasted 4 years and i haven’t even looked at them since.

Dem aestetics of a nice shiny rotor and nicely painted caliper tho... dat rear brake power too... uhmf i want it